(Here's my description: Mike Huckabee laughing at Mitt Romney after Romney explained to him that his "magic underwear" protects him from political attacks).Satan is considered a "Son of 'God'" by the Mormons and therefore Jesus and Lucifer are indeed brothers. It is the classic story of two brothers, one good and the other the bad, "black sheep." It sounds like a script for an outlandish, fantasy movie. You know, the classic "odd couple" idea. Mormons also consider us all as brothers and sisters and to that end refer to each other as Brother (name) and Sister (name). As a Western, Modern, Godless, Zen Buddhist I feel that we are all family but simply because we are all apart of the larger human family via evolution and genetics but not because there was some Heavenly home that we all left to prove our love to our selfish "Father." This from the official Mormon website:
We needed a Savior to pay for our sins and teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father. Our Father said, "Whom shall I send?" (Abraham 3:27). Two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said, "Here am I, send me" (Abraham 3:27).
Jesus was willing to come to the earth, give his life for us, and take upon himself our sins. He, like our Heavenly Father, wanted us to choose whether we would obey Heavenly Father's commandments. He knew we must be free to choose in order to prove ourselves worthy of exaltation. Jesus said, "Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever" (Moses 4:2).
Satan, who was called Lucifer, also came, saying, "Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor" (Moses 4:1). Satan wanted to force us all to do his will. Under his plan, we would not be allowed to choose. He would take away the freedom of choice that our Father had given us. Satan wanted to have all the honor for our salvation.
After hearing both sons speak, Heavenly Father said, "I will send the first" (Abraham 3:27).
GOI: By the way, the Book of Abraham and the Book of Moses are both scripture supposedly translated by Joseph Smith just like the Book of Mormon.
The irony here is that Satan plays an integral role in the plan of "God" and Jesus to allow free will. He represents the "other choice" and so without him "God" and Jesus would have to force us to follow their plan, which according to the above "scriptures" is the plan of Satan!! There's some classic circular thinking for ya!! So what does Satan get for helping "God" pull his plan off?? Eternal damnation that's what. So, we are free to choose so long as we choose his plan. That's not much of a deal.
And where does the idea of evil that Satan supposedly chose to follow come from if not from "God himself?!! Isn't he the Creator of all things?
And don't you think that a father like him who is supposedly all knowing and powerful would do everything in his power to bring Satan back into the fold?? Instead he just kicks him out of the house for one disagreement!! It sounds like the family of "God" needs some therapy. Instead, Jesus, "God" and Satan draw us into their stupid war!! Maybe we don't want to have anything to do with them!! I guess I chose to run away from home because that home is/was clearly abusive. I mean, what would a psychologist think of such a family if you presented that story to them as that of your real family here on Earth??? Talk about dysfunction!!
---End of Transmission---
13 comments:
Hey, a religious battle in the GOP is ok with me! I enjoy watching them tear into each other over the very fabric of their party. Pretty soon Huckabee will have taken all the fodder the liberals have prepared to use in the event Romney got the nomination.
Good stuff! I think Romney is just BEGINNING to feel the heat about his religion.
I posted a video about this very subject over at my blog. It's pretty funny. Check it out.
DB:
Yeah it is nice to see them stumble around like a bunch of sad drunks. I just hope they don't solidify and nominate a real religious nut.
T&A:
Thanks!!
That video was hilarious by the way.
It sounds like the family of "God" needs some therapy. Instead, Jesus, "God" and Satan draw us into their stupid war!!
All religions have their little stories that might sound outlandish. What could be more outlandish than worshiping a dude who sat under a tree all day long? How about people who believe that life just "happened" because some planets collided? Oh wait a minute....take a very close look at the palm of your hand...study the lines, the veins, the folds... and explain to me how that "just happened," because planets collided or because some dude sat under a tree! Talk about needing therapy!!!
PS. Schizophrenia is nothing more than demons overtaking your mind. Take the medications to "bear with it," however, what you need is "deliverance," and Jesus Christ! Fear Schizophrenia...fear it....it's Satan.
Anonymous:
I don't even know where to begin. I'll tell you what I fear, intolerant people like yourself.
So "Satan" is the cause of my brain disorder?? Then where is "Jesus?" Why is it that "Satan" seems to show up everywhere in one's life when things can't be explained.
However, then when you need Jesus to help out (poof!!) he just can't be found. In fact, to get any supposed, "help" you have to beg and grovel?? I thought "Jesus" was stronger, more sane and powerful then "Satan??"
If "God" created everything so perfectly then how do you explain retardation, cerebral palsy and other deformities that some are born with? I guess those little kids were tempted and gave into demons in the womb. If we are created in the image of "God" then shouldn't "God" be partly retarded and otherwise handicapped?? And if that were the case then how can be smart enough to create all things?
As for evolution, consider this: Suppose evolution of life was so improbable that it could only occur on one in a billion planets. Yet even with such absurdly long odds, life will still have arisen on a billion planets -- of which Earth, of course, is one.
We are still evolving today. Girls are maturing earlier then before. Not to mention mirco-organisms that evolve to become anti-biotic resistant.
And there are animals that are evolving who are able to give birth to babies without having sexual intercourse. Not long ago a female shark did so after living years in a tank of only females.
Doctors and scientists have used the concepts of evolutionary biology to prevent the microbes that cause tuberculosis. Crop breeding uses the concepts of evolution to create bigger vegetables and more of them.
Then there is the example of languages evolving into new ones after migration from the parent population to an isolated community. One only need to look at the differences yet similar roots of the Latin languages (French, Italian, Spanish, etc.) that evolved over time.
In addition to the various accents that develop within a certain language such as the difference between Britannic English and American English. Not to mention all the different accents within one country that all speak the same parent language.
Furthermore, scientists use the concepts of evolution to create new compounds that have changed our everyday lives. Such as using petroleum to create plastic and a myriad of other products.
Now, about Buddhism. You clearly haven't studied it in any depth. Buddhists do not worship the Buddha, we bow to him out of respect for his teachings. He is not seen as a "God."
One more thing about the Schizophrenia. For starters I don't have Schizophrenia. I have Schizo-affective disorder. Not exactly the same thing.
Second, why does medicine help treat the symptoms if "God" is my only chance for help? I take anti-depressants and they make me feel a lot better for example.
And if the Christian "God" is the only way to live one's life then which brand of Christianity do we follow? How do we know that is the right one to follow?
If Schizophrenia is caused by demons then how do you know that receiving "answers" to your prayers aren't demons trying to trick you?
See, I just see too many holes in Christianity and other "God" based religions. I would be a total fool to believe in them. If you accept the "God" concept then why not accept belief in goblins, fairies and trolls? After all, you can't see them either, so where's your faith?
What does Budda say about deformaties? God granted Satan free dominion over the earth. If children are born retarded or deformed is that "KARMA?" Birth defects are not punishments. However, these pyschobabble disorders are demonic oppressions. Get deliverance once and for all.
Anonymous: You are an illiterate, intolerant, ignoramus!
Demons? Are you fucking kidding me? Take your deliverance and go back to the rock you came out from under, your bronze age intellect isn't appreciated here.
Anonymous:
Hmm. I find it convenient that you avoided all my questions in my first response but none the less I'll answer YOUR question. I'll get to it in a few paragraphs. But first let me ask you this:
Are you suggesting that Satan causes mental illnesses? If so, how is it that those who accept "God" STILL have trouble dealing with their brain disorder? Maybe they're just not praying enough I guess. :/
I know a guy who is very, VERY Christian and "God fearing" and yet STILL suffers from bipolar. He thinks it's his fault because he believes (like you do) that "Satan" is the root of his illness.
And yet despite his continued prayer, church worship and a "casting out" ceremony where supposedly these "demons" are told to leave, he is getting worse. His symptoms getting worse happened the same time he stopped taking his medication. How do you explain this? If "God" is more powerful then "Satan" then why hasn't he helped this very pious man defeat "Satan" and his demons yet?
Now on to your question about karma, retardation, mental illness and other disabilities in regards to Buddhism.
Buddhism believes that all bodies are born with problems.
All bodies are subject to suffering, sickness, old age and death. So, the reality is that we are all disabled in one form or another.
So the essence of the Buddha's teachings is that HOW one became physically disabled is basically irrelevant.
The point is what we DO with the bodies we were given. Clearly someone with severe mental retardation can not do much with their bodies but they can still feel pleasure and pain.
Therefore it is up to us as a society to help those with severe health problems live the best life possible. To give them the best opportunities to live with less suffering. THAT is the real crux of the issue for Buddhism. The main goal of Buddhism is to reduce suffering.
The Buddha did not have much to say about such things. Karma is more about present circumstances--cause and effect. If I kill someone then I am causing suffering that society has deemed unacceptable and thus I go to jail.
When we realize that certain actions make us feel unhappy and suffer more then we will be more motivated to stop those less helpful actions in the future.
Buddha did not set out to make a religion and even encouraged people to doubt. He said not to believe anything that any teacher or other person claims is "Buddhist" unless it rings true to you and is backed up by your own experiences.
Buddhism doesn't force you to blindly follow.
The Buddha taught that this present moment is more important then wondering what past lives we lived if any. That is because the present moment is the only moment we have and where happiness is maintained.
I live with suffering from Schizophrenia but I don't care how I came to be this way. The fact is that I am here and have this disability and have accepted this reality. So. The question then becomes, HOW do I best deal with it? Personally for me a combination of medicine, meditation and talk therapy help the most.
My father in law is one of the most bipolar people I met. He is also very catholic... I'm beginning to think it isn't satan that makes one crazy, it is Jesus... :)
Wow, good stuff! I am not a Christian, but I find arguing with this guy pointless. He makes Christians look very ignorant, while most are not. Anon probably rejects anything not said by the Church. I assume he believes in the 7 day creation story, since, after all, it is the word of God. Can't argue that, unless you doubt God. Anon also suggests taking pills to "bear with" a disease, but wouldn't that be contrary to the work of God to not let God "deal with it" as he should?
I find that only the zealots take such a hard-core angle on "demons" and God. "Their" religion changes more with the times than evolution ever will. What Christianity does one day will be different the next. If anon actually studied religion, especially his, than he would learn to doubt the very fabric of it.
His religion is simply an "evolution" of other religions, a stronger religion that took concepts from others and made it its own. For instance, Noah's Deluge. Well, totally ripped off from Gilgamesh, we all know that. Or even Greek stories. "Christmas"? I think we all know Dec 25 is a pagan holiday as are many of the symbols (Trees) as well.
What makes "branches" of Christianity ok in God's eyes? Every branch creates its own beliefs, surely not all can be correct. Would God be alright with such watering down of His religion? If it is ok to have such different beliefs from one branch to the next, then why do Christians reject Mormons? Why not Protestants? Or Methodists? Or Baptists? Hell, even Catholicism evolved from the earliest beliefs! If simply believing in Jesus will get me into heaven, what need is there for so many different Churches?
I for one am a traditionalist. I believe in the blonde hair and blue-eyed Jesus, from the Middle East mind you, just in case I am wrong. ;-)
Also, posting anonymously is such cowardly way to create an argument. If you believe in your religion so much, why not post your blog where you can help us see the truth? Posting anonymously makes me think you question your own beliefs and are afraid of them being challenged on your own turf. Would Martin Luther challenging the Catholic Church be so convincing if he didn't post his name to his theses? Would Jesus have so many followers if he stayed in the shadows working through his Apostles anonymously?
If your faith is so strong, stand by it with your name or blog. Defend it with your name. Otherwise, quit being a coward. Take some ownership in your religion.
T&A:
Bronze age thinking is right. If he had his way, people like me with chemical imbalances/brain disorders would still be burned at the stake I'm sure. Scary.
Poodles:
Yeah it seems that some of these Christians go into a psychosis of their own over their fervor for Jesus. In their trance they seem to forget the basic teachings of the very man they are trying to convince others to believe in!!
I doubt that the very compassionate Jesus would want people to beat others over the head with his message and say to accept it or leave the country.
They're twisting and ruining the loving message of Jesus.
Obviously I don't believe Jesus is my Savior or anyone else's for that matter but I do like some of the things he said. Whether he existed or not is irrelevant to me--I just like his message of love and compassion. I wish more of his followers simply concentrated on that essence.
DB:
It pretty pointless but sometimes I feel like putting them in their place. Especially when they show up on my blog and drop a big shit on it.
Good point on the evolution of Christianity comment. See, evolution can be seen in many areas of life Anon.
I find it odd as you do over the many branches of Christianity. As you say, why would "God" water down his own message this way? It reminds me of the whole "Armageddon," "prophecy."
Why does "God/Jesus" have to wait to return and convince the unbelievers until the world has destroyed itself? Wouldn't it be more in his compassionate nature to return now and save as many people and in doing so prevent the destruction of his beloved Earth?
I have read a lot about the Book of Revelations and many experts believe that he was simply taking about the end of the Roman empire.
Yeah and posting anonymously is very cowardly. Not exactly convincing to say the least. As you say, stand by what you say and tell us who you are.
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